Which FCS conference might the 49ers end up in for football? They've been talking to the Big South, Southern Conference and Colonial Athletic Association, each of which make sense. Here's the case for each:
-- Big South
One supposed sticking point for the 49ers is that any membership in an FCS league will be temporary, pending the move to FBS (and Phil Dubois is making sure folks know that's not going to happen soon). Still, if it's temporary you want, the Big South might be the place: Stony Brook, the league's un-southern school, is an associate member in football (like Charlotte would be) and only signed a four-year contract with the league when it came in for the 2008 season (it's since been extended through the 2015 season).
So the Big South obviously isn't averse to being a way-station for schools who might need to look elsewhere in the future.
And the Big South's offices are in Charlotte, so there is that.
-- CAA
Things are in flux in the CAA. Two schools -- national champ Villanova and UMass -- are considering moves to FCS. Two more -- Georgia State and Old Dominion -- are coming into the league. The CAA also is home to other football programs whose schools play the rest of their sports in the Atlantic 10 (like Charlotte would): Richmond, Rhode Island and (for now) UMass. Although there are no Carolinas schools in the CAA (for football), at least Charlotte wouldn't be the southern-most outpost in the league as it is in the A-10. That would be Georgia State. With 10 or more football-playing schools, the league could divide into two divisions.
-- Southern
Don't see this happening. SoCon presidents and ADs are concerned about bringing in any school -- as football only or otherwise -- temporarily. The league also recently just went through an expansion when it added Samford.
Thursday, February 10, 2011
Handicapping the football conference situation
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Most of the CAA fans are telling us to take a hike if we don't want to become full members. I hope the actual decision makers up top in that conference allow us to be associate members for football only.
I wouldn't mind the Big South. They get an autobid now, very winnable conference, many drivable games. We would also have more non-conference games to schedule how we like.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind the Big South either actually, for those same reasons.
Chapel Hill Phil Dubois will be HOPEFULLY long gone drinking his appletinis when OUR decision to go BCS arrives.
He is the worst chancellor in the UNC system history and completely anti-charismatic.
Mr. Scott why is it that you didn't mention the MEAC, considering Charlotte is right in the middle of the conference footprint?
Big South would seemingly be the obvious choice. I don't think the administration realizes how badly they're going to get beaten if they join either the SoCon (which seems unlikely anyhow) or the CAA.
The Big South, for some reason, gets an autobid the playoffs and they could compete almost right away. If they want to move to any FBS conference (a BCS conference is a LONG ways away), it will be a lot easier to do if you field a winning team and make the playoffs on a regular basis regardless of conference affiliation.
The Big South is the weakest of the options, but I don't think a losing team from the SoCon or CAA is going to get much consideration from the FBS conferences. 11 of the last 15 national champions have come from the CAA or SoCon; it would take a long time for the 49ers to be competitive.
David, when discussing the CAA did you mean to write that Villanova and UMass are considering moves to FBS as opposed to FCS? Also, in your Big South discussion I believe you meant to write weigh station as opposed to way station. Or at least I hope you meant to.
Just an FYI Villanova and UMass are both FCS (Old I-AA Schools), So yes, it is correct to say a move to the FBS.
As for football. The Big South is small time, and if the 49'rs ar considering a long ride in the FCS, (10+ years). The SoCon is the way to go. If you want to make the jump to FBS, then it will take a strong team with the ability to compete with anyone. a winning tradition. Currently the only thing keeping Traditional powers App State, Georgia Southern, TN Chatt in the FCS is Money. All are currenlty studying a move to the FBS, so room in the SoCOn will be available.
Getting into the playoffs only to loose in the first round to a Montana, Richmond, Georgia Southern, Nova, or App State isn't going to help your cause.
It is all about the money. The market that you play in says a lot about that. You guys talk about tradition and how that will take you to the Big Conference and to the FBS, but I don't see tradition playing much of a factor. The question is can they fill the seats? There is no way that Boone, NC and Statesville, GA can compete with the city of Charlotte when it comes to market share. Can the city of Charlotte put 80,000 to 100,000 people in the stands to see a Charlotte/ Tennessee game or a Charlotte/Florida State game. I think there would be a much greater chance that you would see that in Charlotte than at Boone.
Don't get me wrong. Charlotte has to prove that they can hire a good coach, recruit quality players, and put a winning team on the field. However, I disagree that you have to have a Championship to move to the next level. Once Charlotte is playing in the FBS, then the higher rated recruits will be available. This 5 to 10 year step is simply to get the program started.
It would not surprise me if 2019 is the first year of the FBS for the niners. It wouldn't surprise me if the AD is already trying to negotiate for a major conference. I don't think the school can afford to keep the program at the FCS level for long. There is not enough money there. No offense, but playing on local channel 22 doesn't compare to the payout of an ESPN game.
Let's see if I understand this correctly.
The CAA is not interested in Charlotte as a football only school b/c one day(20 yrs)Charlotte will go FBS and also they want to be a football only member. Yet 50% of the teams presently in the CAA (Football) this year are football only schools. Three of the schools in the CAA are already studying a move from the FCS to FBS (James Madison, UMASS, and Villanova).
The Big South is not interested in Charlotte, yet the The Big South Conference office is in Charlotte a city of one million people (metro).
The Southern Conference doesn't want Charlotte because the school has insulted them by insinuating the 49er's are a big time basketball school and the Southern conference is small time.
The Big East- Some in Charlotte thinks that the Big East is waiting with baited breath for the school. That’s a joke.
Who could have created this problem Judy? Who could be the problem Judy? Who has ticked off the every conference on the East Coast Judy?
Best choice in my mind is The Pioneer League.
Good size for them and a great place to start.
They would have Campbell which is close. Davidson, very close, good rivalry potential right off the bat.
Plus, Dayton a fellow A10 basketball member.
Aiming too high too soon would not be in the programs best interest.
I hope you're joking. You realize Pioneer League is non-scholarship...right?
I think some fans need to realize that UNCC isn't going to automatically dominate FCS from the get-go. The question is, where is UNCC going to recruit from? First of all, you aren't going to be recruiting the kids who are being looked at by UNC, NC State, ECU, USC or any of the other big schools around here. The teams in the area who are already established in FCS like App State, Wofford are going to have a leg up granted Wofford and UNCC probably won't target the same kind of kid. What it's going to end up being is a bunch of local kids who are too small to be looked at by anybody else and had to decide between UNCC and Wingate and the occasional kid whose been kicked of a FBS team mixed with guys from up north or Florida who couldn't get any kind of attention down there. For the most part, teams who tend to do well in FCS either have the hook of great academics (Richmond), are located near no other schools so they have a better shot at recruits (Montana) or have a history a winning (App). Those are three things UNCC don't have.
Interesting take. You guys are in an interesting situation and should prepare your resources for FBS. If you do not get the conference affliation you'd like stay as an FCS Independent.
Conference USA and the Sun Belt will have major shifts coming in the next 2 years. As far as schools signing contracts for a certain number of years, they mean very little because of a conference buyout (most are between $250K and $500K in regards to FCS).
Anyone interested in talking about all things FCS, come on over to PantherTalk.com and see how Georgia State is doing it.
@anon 8:20 AM I actually think the "FCS-type" recruits will be knocking at our door immediately. As I have heard, they already are inquiring about us. The city of Charlotte has a little bit of an advantage. Scratch that, a lot of bit of an advantage. Eventually, if all things are even and I'm a kid wanting to play, I would choose Charlotte over Boone every time. But maybe that's just me. Same thing with Charlotte and ECU once we get to FBS. I would choose The Queen City over Greenville every time...
Who is inquiring? Sophomores in high school who already know the best they can do is a brand new FCS team?
I think until we have a coach in place it is a moot point. Recruiting is going to have a ton to do with the coach. Big name coaches with charismatic personalities bring big players. Also the city will help bring in recruits. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to be delusional and say we are going to be great in one year, but with the right coach we can work our way up the ranks more quickly than people think.
Anon 12:45 AM - you have them mixed up. It's the SoCon that does not want Charlotte, or any team that doesn't pledge and sign in blood that they will forever be a member of that conference. The issues around the CAA are with who is going to be in the conference in 5 years. I think the CAA is the place to go. It has more schools that we play in other sports.
I agree that Charlotte may have a built-in advantage. If you were a kid that got pased over by the FBS schools and needed a place to go where you could prove that you were good enough, wouldn't you rather do that in Charlotte than Statesboro GA, Spartanburg or Pembroke? I would. Much greater chance of beeing seen by more people.
Pioneer League is non-scholarshipped. The So Con ought to look at us as Davidson's football team. Why not? Davidosn is a full-fledged member and doesn't play SoCon football. We could be their step-son and do so. We'd get beat up a few years, but it would be ideal for our fans and recruiting.
If I were a player choosing a FCS school I would choose a team that has won three National Championships and a rich tradition (ie App St. Or Georgia Southern). A fair comparison would be for the last 20 yrs would would I rather have played at Virgina Tech or Virgina, UNC, or NCSU. For most Super athletes the answer has been rural VT.
I'm for Charlotte but that's MHO.
There are 8 schools in the region with desires to move from FCS to FBS status. They are James Madison, Liberty, Appalachian St., Georgis St., Georgis Southern, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, & kennesaw.
Why not form a conference with them with the understanding that within 10 years they all move to FBS as a conference. They leave an open invitation to ECU & Marshall to join them when they b/c a FBS conference.
The conference could be named "Conference of Atheletics Southern Teams" (COAST).
Here's what a school like Wofford has over UNCC in terms of football. The school. Wofford is a much more highly regarded school than UNCC. Very few guys from FCS play pro. Yes, I know they do, but it's few and far between. A lot of these kids know that. Plus, the university area isn't that nice. Wofford's campus is much better than UNCC's as is App's, but you do beat Pembroke.
Being in Charlotte won't help with conferences either. No TV deals for FCS and on top of that there are just as many App grads in town as UNCC.
Have any of you been to a Pembroke St. Football game? I went to one of their games last year. it was a pleasant surprise. Great tailgating, sold out stadium, and passion!
Campus does need upgrading but it is my understanding that they are working on that. And let's not forget they do have a team, a coach, & a stadium.
1:15, you are wrong on all "points' you listed. Especially about the campuses. You obviously have not been on the Charlotte campus recently. It is head and shoulders above the others you mentioned. Not even close!
12:45....let me correct you. None of the things you list about those 3 leagues are true. In fact, they all are on record as saying they are VERY interested in Charlotte.....stay tuned.
Anom 1:15
Wofford is a liberal arts college so its difficult to compare the two schools. Also, Wofford's total enrollment is a whopping 1,439 students. Charlotte def has the advantage over most southern FCS schools for student enrollment/fan base. Id say the campus is nicer and more up to date than say Wofford or App State. Academic rankings is an area Charlotte lacks in tho.
2:21, I'm glad you are proud of UNCC. I am not a Wofford grad, but the facilities they have blow away anything UNCC will have for football, and they have the Panthers to thank for that. With regards to acadmics, it's night and day. Sure UNCC has some really great students, but the average UNCC student wouldn't get into Wofford. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.
Wofford has finer facilities? I can tell you didn't go to Wofford or school.
Will someone please explain to me why App State and EZU are so worried about us getting football if we will "suck" then why should it matter to App or EZU about us getting football
The MEAC makes a lot of sense. There will be natural rivalries with other UNC system schools. UNCC is NOT going to get into the SOCON and admission the the CAA is doubtful as well. The competition in the MEAC is head and shoulders above the Big Suck Conference and the 49ers would embarrassingly be identifed with glorified club teams such as Coastal Carolina, Liberty Presbyterian and Charleston Southern. The added advantage of membership in the MEAC is promoting diversity and encouraging the one race, the human race, global society.
I'm sorry for the rational Charlotte fans who have to put up with some of the idiots in here. The people on here saying that the Charlotte campus is nicer then the Wofford campus are absolutely out of their minds. I've been there when App was playing Wofford and their campus is absolutely stunning, it blows just about every school I've seen out of the water. I'd take the App campus over Charlotte every day of the week, but I guess you can at least make an argument there.
The guys saying Charlotte is going in 2019 are absolutely delusional. You can't just look at what schools like USF and Uconn do and assume thats your path. It's not. UConn is THE school in that state, and it happens to be the state with the highest avg. per capita income. USF is much bigger then Charlotte, they are in Florida, and they didn't have to sink 10s of millions of dollars into a stadium.
The guy saying that he is hearing that recruits are already talking about Charlotte just has me shaking my head. Tell me about your inside sources in the recruiting world who say all of the 15 year olds are talking about playing for Charlotte.
The people saying they would go to App over Charlotte are entitled to their opinion. Since our admissions standards are higher then yours, you probably couldn't get into App.
Good luck to Charlotte, I hope you succeed. Some of you need to come back to reality though. You can't even break the 4,000 mark on your PSLs yet, and you are already talking crap to App State. I have an idea, why don't you come to the Rock this season (instead of going to your parents house like a normal weekend) and see how 30,000+ fans do football right. You could learn a thing or two.
If we listened to all the naysayers, Charlotte wouldn't be where it is today. This is just the beginning! I hope we continue to prove our doubters wrong!
Funny how "doesn't matter" UNC Charlotte and our little ole football program sure does generate so much...........concern from Mighty App St fans.
I've been to App and I've been to Wofford. Nice campuses but UNC Charlotte has 9000 more students then both your schools combined and will be twice as large as both schools combined in 10 years.
The campus is beautiful now and 2 out of 3 buildings are less than 15 years old.
It's true Wofford gets a better class of liberal arts student but with 1000 some students you'd expect some exclusivity.
App on the otherhand can't hold its nose up at UNC Charlotte's academic standards as they are the same. Plus we offer 19 doctorates and have a top 5 ranked national architechural school and an engineering school that will soon be the center of the power industry in theis country.
You folks are living in the past and the University of Charlotte is that ominous shadow in your future.
5:55, I am from Boone, spent 18 years of my life there and my dad teaches at App, I also went there for a semester...I do agree with you that App has a more "appealing" campus with the surrounding high country, but the campus facilities and buildings are way nicer at Charlotte. The recent buildings they built are ranked state-of-the-art in the state. Duke energy just poured in over 10 million to build a brand new energy research campus attached to ours.
And just to be clear I got into App and Charlotte with the same GPA out of highschool... App's admissions might be a TINY bit higher than Charlotte's.
At any rate, comparing schools is not really what we're here to argue about, it's football. We respect App and you should respect us. No one is talking crap about anyone. Some ppl at charlotte just think football is going to be amazing in our first year and that's not going to happen. App has spent decades building their program and it took a lot of hard work (I know Coach Moore from his wife teaching at BR elementary). Charlotte will need to follow in your footsteps but might have to stand in your shadow for a few years.
@49RFBN
You are mistaken if you think it is concern. I actually hope UNC Charlotte does well, thats why I've been reading these articles and the comments that come with them. You get this response from App fans not out of concern, just more out a dumbfounded surprise and anger. So many of you think you are already better then Appalachian, or that you are just going to start a football program and then just blow right by us in 5 years. It's ridiculous.
Sell 5,000 PSLs first (Hell, sell 4,000. I thought the 5,000 was supposed to be reached a long time ago?). Get a stadium first. Hell get a MARCHING BAND first. You don't even have the money in the budget for a marching band or stadium lights, and yet to so many of you its a foregone conclusion that you will just breeze into the FBS in 10 years with all the expenses that come with it (do you know how many 10s of millions of dollars you are looking at for stadium expansion, all those extra scholarships for the football team and the womens sports, etc).
If you want to talk about Appalachian, we average 25,000+ fans a game at a stadium that is bursting at the seams (we are in the process of expanding it). We led the FCS in attendance yet again this year, and we averaged 8,000 more fans a game then the team ranked 5th. We averaged more fans a game then about 1/3 of the FBS schools, including a PAC-10 school.
Before you talk crap to App fans, sell your 5,000 PSLs. Complete your stadium. Get a marching band. Win a freakin game. I'm sure you will think this post is something I made out of fear or anger that the big bad UNCC is coming. I assure you its not, I'm just trying to say that if you want your football program to even be mentioned in the same breath as ours, EARN IT.
And one more point, I was actually off on those attendance figures. Those were counting our playoff games, which actually bring attendance down because they occur during the Thanksgiving/Winter break time when so many students are out of school. Our numbers in the regular season are actually higher then that. Just FYI
I have nothing but respect for the App program personally.
I do not expect Charlotte to dominate FCS right out of the game, but I do feel like we have a lot of advantages that could make us a FCS power very early. Location and facilities most notably.
We're in an area with a good amount of football talent. Some of those kids that may have gone to another FCS team in the state now have a local option where their friends and family can more easily see them play.
Charlotte's facilities from day 1 will be among the best in FCS. App has a sizeable stadium and I love the hill seating, but the track and split seating kills the stadiums appeal for me. Makes it feel like a giant high school stadium. Charlotte's sunken bowl horseshoe is a great design. Sucks there will be no lights, but we can always use temporary lighting if we have to have a night game. Michigan does not have lighting at their stadium either. All other facilities associated with football will be new as well.
The key to Charlotte's success is getting a football coach that can become the face of the program and get people excited. Our Athletic Director and Chancellor cannot be that person. The school has done a terrible job selling this to the community thus far. To many people it still does not feel real and won't until they see a coach and/or a stadium.
App's field has a track so did my high school haha
It also packs in twice as many fans each Saturday then Charlotte ever will. Enjoy your parents house this weekend.
App stop living in the past Michigan was 4 years ago
Appie fan, you're so cluless about Charlotte's "ticket" sales. Unlike UNC-Tweetsie, we are selling FSLs (not $15 game tickets) at $1,000-2500+ each and have sold over $4million worth with 2.5 years to go, no head coach and no players or stadium yet. Ap may sell a lot of $15 game day tickets, but from what I understand your season ticket base is only 5-6000. That would equate to less than 25% of the $$$ Charlotte has ALREADY raised with FSLs.
The way it works at App, the people who just pay for those season tickets you are talking about (but at an average of $20+ a game) get sections in each of the 4 corners of the stadium. Other then those 4 corners, the stadium is made up of student seating and Yosef club seating. To sit in the Yosef club seating (which thousands of people do), you have to pay either $250 or $500 a year every year in addition to the price of the season tickets. So that $1000 or $2500 is nice and all, but it's a one time fee.
So I might re-check my numbers if I were you... And even if your math was right (but you were not even close) you are talking about first year money when there is a big fundraising campaign going on and everybody is excited and rallying around the program. You can't compare that to the money an establish football program is bringing in during a regular year.
I haven't seen anybody say that we are already better than App. I haven't seen anybody say that we are going to blow right by them. All I have seen is App fans coming around, scared that we might actually have something here. I think Charlotte fans have high aspirations because of the possibility of a quicker move than most. Maybe it won't be 10 years...but then again maybe it will. We have the 18th largest city in the country here, a school population expected to be the highest in the state within the next 2 decades, and an opportunity for a big(ger) name coach to come in here and set his legacy in stone. It's not about passing App. It's about potential.
You are right. You sell more tickets than us. It's exactly like one of you said, you have an established football program. That means you have an established fanbase. We are starting from scratch. We have nothing put together yet. 3500 people have said, "Hey, I'll endorse this Charlotte program," with no coach or even broken ground for the field house yet. I think that is pretty impressive. We still have 2 and a half years until kickoff. That is plenty of time to sell the other 1500. So maybe coming to a CHARLOTTE blog about a CHARLOTTE team with EXCITED CHARLOTTE FANS is not the place to come in on your high horse making accusations that Charlotte fans are saying we are coming to Boone to ef you guys up.
It's not out of fear? I wouldn't bet on that buddy.
P.S. You only have higher admission standards b/c you would have to knock a mountain down to expand your school.
You will be grey haired old men before Charlotte football is anything worth caring about. App is a crap hole too, leave football to the big boys like us at UNC. I hope you all meet Ira Yarmolenko soon
hey that's alright, I'd rather be a grey haired old man with a respectable team than have a dirty cheating team that STILL can't win. Best talent in the country and still a bust. UNC CHeat!
UNC's stadium reminds me of the inside of Aluminum can.
Charlotte and App probably won't be in the same conference, so it's not like there will be any kind of rivalry...So I don't understand why App fans are already criticizing our football. We sure as hell aren't going to play UNC-Ch either.
PS, I still love the comments about us "going home on the weekends," well, that's one of the things football is going help to change. Am I right?
Anon 11:57
So you hope we all die soon?
Your a suck one for dragging out poor Ira. I'd wish that you meet her soon right back but I'm not as evil as you.
Dear Appman,
Wofford and App do not have a nicer campus or facilities than Charlotte. I have seen both campuses and I attend UNCC. Wofford's campus sucks, and so does the athletic facilities. App has a nice campus and stadium. But Charlotte's campus is still nicer IMO plus it's in a city. And for those that say UNCC has bad academics, just FYI that 8 departments are ranked top 20 in their respective fields.
Anon 11:57 - Leave football to us big boys at UNC? Really? This is the team that hasn't won a conference title in the lousy ACC since Carter was president? The team who has nearly lost to the last two good FCS teams they played, and who once lost to Furman by 25? The only thing you can say about UNC football on a national scale is thank goodness for Duke, Vandy and Indiana.
Hey Tarholes! Why don't you take your ignorant raves to somene who cares about your wussy program. You have danced around App State for years playing other FCS schools because you are afraid you will get embarrassed at your sorry excuse for a stadium.
The only reason people at App. State goes to games and not home on the weekend is because it is a long drive from the sticks.
I wouldn't know how to compare my engineering degree with anyone from Wofford or App. State because I've never run across anyone in the engineering world that had a degree from those schools. I have worked with people from NCSU, Penn State, and Va. Tech and I was not impressed. However, I guess I can't blame the school on a few.
Do the Tar Heels even have a football team?
App. State fans need to understand and not get their feelings hurt when people talk about Charlotte jumping to the FBS. It is all about money and demographics, not Championships in the FCS. Charlotte is one of the largest and most financially sound cities in the US. The University has a lot of support from some major corporations that are based in the city. The 10's of millions will come soon enough. The stadium is already prepped to go to 40,000 from 15,000. You guys talk about us not having $800,000 in lights. The stadium will be pre-wired, and that money is chump change to some of the contributers to Charlotte. Some wealthy Alumni is going to say, "I want to see some night games." Then the lights will be up. So go back into the mountain caves, with your thoughts of App. State football and we'll see in a few years.
Are certain members of the Observer staff going to be opposed to the Niners going FBS/BCS when the day comes because they think the Niners should know their place? I understand from a former staff member some of them were opposed go the Niners joining CUSA in the 90s and then opposed to the Niners getting football?
"Dear Appman,
Wofford and App do not have a nicer campus or facilities than Charlotte. I have seen both campuses and I attend UNCC. Wofford's campus sucks, and so does the athletic facilities. App has a nice campus and stadium. But Charlotte's campus is still nicer IMO plus it's in a city. And for those that say UNCC has bad academics, just FYI that 8 departments are ranked top 20 in their respective fields."
So you attend UNCC and you think it's a better campus than Wofford or App. Well, since you go to UNCC, you are probably a 25-year old sophomore from Gastonia, so I'm sure North Charlotte seems pretty fancy to you. What 8 programs are in the top 20?
anon 3:58,
The commuter school thing is so old. We have 7,500 students that live on campus, and there is a waiting list to get into campus housing every year. There are several new housing facilities in the works as well. This doesn't even count the other 8,000 students that live off campus in the immediate vicinity of the school. We attract a lot of commuter students because we are in such a populated area, but we are by no means a commuter school.
I know of 4 programs that are in the top 10:
*Special Education (9th)
*Infrastructure and Environmental Systems (4th)
*Information Technology (10th)
*Architecture, Design, and Planning (4th
to anyone who said the MEAC that isn't going to happen it is a historically black school league so UNCC doesn't fit there
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