UPDATED
cs director Judy Rose said this morning that the 49ers won't be offered a football-only associate membership by either the Southern Conference or Big South.
Rose said she talked with commissioners of both leagues -- the SoCon's John Iamarino and the Big South's Kyle Kallander -- earlier this week. Rose and Chancellor Phil Dubois were part of a Charlotte group that made a presentation to the Southern Conference at its spring meetings last week.
"It has to be win-win for both us, whichever the league, and they didn't think it was for them," said Rose.
Rose said Charlotte's only other option for conference affiliation when the 49ers begin football in 2013 is the Colonial Athletic Association. Otherwise, Charlotte would be an FCS independent until it makes a move up to FBS, whenever that comes.
Rose feels strongly that the rest of Charlotte's athletic teams remain in the Atlantic 10, which doesn't sponsor football.
Rose and Charlotte chancellor Phil Dubois spoke with Southern Conference presidents and athletics directors at the league’s annual meeting last Thursday in Charleston.
“There were a lot of positives,” said Iamarino. “But we already have a very diverse membership. And the elephant in the room was the temporary nature of what their membership would be. Everybody had to think about that.”
Kallander wouldn’t comment specifically on any contact he had with Charlotte.
“We’ve had conversations with any number of institutions about potential membership,” said Kallander, whose league office is in Charlotte. “Anybody in our region would be a possibility.”
The Big South has seven football-playing schools, including Stony Brook (N.Y.), which is an associate member in football. Stony Brook is also in the league temporarily, signing a four-year contract with the Big South in 2008 and recently extending it through 2015.
Dubois acknowledges that when the 49ers’ football feasibility committee publically recommended moving up to FBS, their chances at finding a temporlary conference might have been hurt.
“We’ve got to crawl before we walk, walk before we run,” said Dubois, who added that he didn’t agree with the FBS recommendation. “The committee did an outstanding job, but we needed to say we’re going to start football as an FCS proglram and just do it the best way we can.”
Wednesday, June 8, 2011
SoCon, Big South turn down 49ers
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85 comments:
how the hell did we get turn down by the big south?
College football needs a mercy rule.
oh they will all have their day on the football field
There was no chance of the 49ers getting into either of those conferences as long as Dubois and Rise are doing the presentations.
It doesn't matter who is giving the presentation, there is no incentive for either conference to take a football-only startup program who in all likelihood is looking to leave at the first jingle of change. I actually could see the Colonial as a good fit, but it'd have to be for all other sports too- including basketball, which the Colonial is actually as strong as or better than the A10, save maybe Xavier.
pull up some stats Anon 11:39 - CAA basketball is not better than the A10. They had a good run this year, but traditionally have not had as many bids as the A10. Both leagues have "dead weight" - but the A10 is and has been a much better league.
No surprise on the SoCon, they were always the longest shot of the three conferences.
Big South makes no sense on the surface though. They already have an affiliate member way out of the geographic footprint (Stony Brook in NY). They have only 7 football playing members. They're conference HQ is in Charlotte.
Wonder what kind of hardball Judy and Phil are playing to get rejected by the Big South? Hope they know something big the rest of us don't.
Classic example of ready, fire, AIM in this debacle. No real plan of association for the FB program other than hoping that some desparate conference would babysit them for a few years until they grew into their Big Boy Pants to the upper league. They should have accepted the Southern Conference as a reasonable destination for all sports and cross that bridge to fame and fortune when they grow a pair
I'd imagine that the CAA would be the best fit for football only anyway, seeing as how URI, Richmond, and UMass are already there doing the same thing. Plus ODU would be a great football rival (if we can copy their early success).
The reason they got turned down is because they won't also move the basketball program. Plain and simple. Basketball is the crown jewel of the school. No league that doesn't need them, wants them without that.
The Big South, especially with a football only member already, is in NO position to ask for anyone's basketball program.
Charlotte will not get the votes of the basketball-only CAA members unless they bring the BB program - plain and simple.
Half the CAA teams finished under .500, compared to less than a quarter of the A10.
SoCon I can understand turning us down, but since Lambert was hired, it feels like we are pulling all the stops out to be good quick. Big South could have gotten a lot of good from us.
What will be UNCC Classification in football when they start play.Will it be D1a. D2 what? This is important in that if UNCC will be counting on transfers they will have to know this in regards to transfer and redshirt rules.
WHAT WILL UNCC's classification be when they finally play.D1 D2 WHAT?Very important info for possible transfers.
Who is surprised about any of this? One would have live in Never Never Land by the River of Denial to be surprised by this!
UNCC & Administrative Leadership are an oxymoron.
Where's my paper bag?
@1:15, We will be division 1, playing at the FCS level
We got turned down because we never really made the presentation. No Joke!
The SoCon and Big South are expecting UNC Chapel Hill, not UNC Charlotte. Chancellor Dubious must of forgotten what school he is chancellor of... AGAIN. The whole presentation was painted Tarheel blue with a big UNC on the title page...
I would be in favor of moving to the Colonial in all sports. The A-10 is decent in men's basketball but is a trash bag in all other sports. Look how rotten the A-10 is in baseball, which is now our second-most successful sport (behind golf). Both soccer teams as well as track & field are also better than the men's hoops team. I have confidence coach Major will get us back to respectability, but we have to look at the big picture. As a whole, moving from the A-10 to the Colonial would be a step up.
If this was a prom UNCC just got rejected by chubby & the ugly one. And now they are trying to connect with "the Loose One" , who will crawl in bed with anyone.
I'd count my blessings in regards to being denied by the SoCon. It saved you from a few win-less seasons. An FCS independent status and the likely extension of your FBS aspirations to over a decade will put you on the same recruiting level as Campbell or NCCU. In reality no one wants to take a start up, football only. It's going to take a full scale reorganization of the NCAA to put UNCC in a position where they can even be considered by an FBS conference. You shouldn't have announced your intentions to move up and you shouldn't think so highly of your BBall team. Going from winning 2 conference games in a 3 bid league to being in the upper half of a 1 bid league isn't that far of a stretch. That's the only way you will ever have success in college football.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-D_a6U2sWgDU/TcdDkDxPOgI/AAAAAAAABP0/I9QtxVy-N-Y/s1600/quality-control-rejected-hi.png
Can anyone at UNC-C even spell arrogance?
Announcing your intention to leave before you arrive to the party is s-t-u-p-i-d.
The CAA won't take you and they recently lost 4 members (UMASS, Rhode Island, Northeastern & Hofstra)
UNC-C's only hope is App decides to move all of its sports to the CAA and the SoCon wants to replace them with another public school.
App will never join CAA unless it somehow became FBS (NCAA rules prohibit it). Lateral football move.
You had better tell the feasibility committee that rule... "Since January, Appalachian’s athletics feasibility study committee has been analyzing data collected by Collegiate Consulting LLC regarding the feasibility of seeking a change in ASU’s conference and/or football-subdivision affiliation. "
I don't get all the "move up" talk. Move up from what? Having football is good enough for a while and any talk, I mean even a syllable of talk re: FBS is b.s. School should have signed anything to get into a conference. Being independent will cost the school more than money if you ask me. Moving up to FBS? A mistake to even be thinking along those lines.
The change in conference affiliation refers to examining the options available outside of the FCS subdivision (ie Sun Belt, MAC, or Conf USA). Moving to the CAA is not an option. It creates a lateral move while losing Appalachian's natural rivalries with WCU, Furman, etc.
Once again ... we're reminded of Judy Rose's influence -- regardless of the subject or issue, she manages to screw up everything! What an unmitigated disaster she is.
Somebody PLEASE fire Judy Rose!!!
And lock Dubois in a closet so he never speaks in a public forumn again.
Being an Independent = disaster
We'd be stuck playing teams like NCCU and Wofford for 10+ years with no hope of moving up to the FBS level. I say our best hope is to move all sports to the CAA.
Why would you mention NCCU in the same sentence as Wofford? Wofford is an established, consistent top 10 FCS program. Charlotte would be lucky to have the same kind of success as Wofford in 10 years.
This should be a lesson to all of the UNCC fans who thought they would be God's gift to the FCS from day one. So many of them were already talking about the Big East, and they just got rejected by the Big South.
The only option now is to ask for a full membership into the CAA (and pray to God they accept). Charlotte is going to be in the FCS for awhile; you can't build a program as an FCS independent.
Well now that uncc has hit rock bottom maybe they will tone down the arrogance, your "elite" bball team and refusal to move all sports to a conference just drowned your football team ;)
WAIT, everybody hear that? Silence from uncc fans! Pigs have flown.
Hmmmm,why no mention of joining the MEAC as an associate member?
UNCCs best option would be to join the Southern Conference for all sports. They would have natural rivals with Western, App, Davidson, Wofford, Furman, etc., and SoCon basketball is a lot better than it used to be. UNCC would not win the SoCon in BBall from day one and they might not even finish in the upper division of the conference.
I don't think the SoCon would accept UNC-C as any type of member - football or full. The fact is that you guys are looking to move up as soon as possible, and the Southern Conference is wants to be stable and strong. Even if Charlotte's admin had lied and said they were looking for a long term relationship, an objective observer knows this program is aggressive and will move up quickly, much like Alabama Birmingham or Central Florida.
because the meac is a HBC conference
ugh...so mad they didn't get membership!!
Joining the Socon in all sports would be a death sentence to all Charlotte 49er sports. App State would jizz in their pants we joined all sports because every sport other than football would be dramatically altered. Our basketball team is honestly the worst team we have right now but it looks like its getting back to where it was a few years ago. And its not "UNC-C" or even "UNCC", athletics are the Charlotte 49ers and the institution is UNC Charlotte. We underwent a massive rebranding campaign in the early 90s and we lost the hyphen years before that.
The Socon was smart for rejecting Charlotte as football only. It would be morons for rejecting us as an all member.
MM, what on earth have you seen to make you think the basketball team is getting back to where it was a few years ago? A couple of 3 star recruits after the debacle of last season, and you are getting back to being a consistent tournament team? You are delusional.
You are also delusional thinking App will "jizz their pants" if Charlotte joined in all sports. Yeah, I'm sure those baseball and golf teams will really move the needle.
Keep living in your little bubble. You are 2+ years away from playing UNC Pembroke in your cute little 15k capacity statement. The Big South, home to such juggernauts as Stoney Brook and Gardner Webb, didn't think your football team was worth membership. Suck it.
We ain't good in basketball and we ain't heading in the right direction. Somebody needs to get off that stuff before they come and take the kids away.
You're right, it's not UNCC, it's UNC-Concord
UNCC has fans? I thought they were all commuter kids that wore t-shirts of every other school in the region.
No big surprise they are getting turned down by two like conferences in the Big South/Socon. UNCC's basketball team wouldn't even win in those two leagues. They surely wouldn't with a start-up football program.
If you think this type of rejection is disappointing, wait until you realize that UNC won't play your team because you're 'FCS' but then will be more than willing to play the Citadel, William & Mary, James Madison & Furman.
Get used to it.
They were turned down because the scale of the their program was too high for Big South play. Budget was 4-5x bigger than BS schools. Felt like Charlotte would be taking auto playoff bid in short period of time. As for Southern, they are at perfect number for football scheduling and private schools didn't want another large public in mix. Publics in SoCon did want Charlotte.
This article should never happen.
The folks doing the search should be doing diligence in private and not feeding the negative media machine. Lets use some common sense please.
@ Anon 11:36...
Our basketball program is getting back on track. We have a couple 4 stars, two 3 stars, and one recruit who declined VCU and Marshall to play for us. Not to mention two highly touted recruits who will be eligible this year. In a couple years we will be finishing in the top of the A-10 again.
Moving all sports to the SoCon would not be wise, IMO. And YES, we would dominate in all sports except maybe basketball and football. That includes W&M Soccer, Golf, Baseball...etc.
Why does anyone from App care if we joined SoCon. I thought you were trying to get out? If you move one to CUSA, what's the problem with us replacing your sports (even tho it's probably not happening now).
All our sports would not be dominant in a lower league like the Big South/Southern. Basketball we would win neither league. Maybe we win baseball, but CCU in Big South is a better program, and the Southern has a couple decent programs as well.
We need to realize what we are.
Rose and Dubois tried and lost but at least they are on the right track in their thinking. Getting out of the A10 should the #1 goal for millions in expense savings.
Dont worry about crawling before you walk in football. There are enuff walkon discards in the Charlotte Metro area to have a D1A championship.
Think seriously about forming an all NEW CONFERENCE. The NCAA in Kansas City is always open to new leagues. They love new league formations.
With all the massive expanionism and population shift too the Southeastern region of America there is NO doubt that it could handle new conferences.
Sit back. Re-examine and scope the situation thoroughly. Make it D1 obviously and D1AA football.
There are a lot of dissatified schools who could solicited in the SEC, ACC, SoCon etc. 8-10 schools would be a cinch to agree to a new league. Make the central home in Charlotte and UNCC as host. This would draw immediate national and inter'nal MEDIA attention from ESPN, FoxSports, etc including all the major maps like SI.
Call it the Atlantic-South Conference.
Miami wants out
Clemson might want in
FSU maybe
Tenn Chat
UNC Charlotte
Furman
Richmond
WVU
Memphis
Arkansas? maybe
Western Carolina
East Carolina
lot of possibilities
One MAJOR in UNCCharlotte favor is the centralized location and having an NFL Stadium for playoff games.
Wow, it is really scary how many people will post comments on a public forum when they so clearly lack ANY knowledge of a situation. First, Charlotte was turned down for FOOTBALL only and mostly because we were honest and told the BS and SoCon that we would only be there temporarily. If any of you think the BS, SoCon or CAA would turn Charlotte down for ALL SPORTS you're out of your mind. They'd probably pi$$ all over themselves to get Charlotte as a full member. Hell, the CAA (clearly the best of the lot) already offered us full membership last winter and we turned it down.Get a clue haters!
Agreed that any of the three conferences would take UNCC if they came on board for all sports. However, I would be shocked if Charlotte could be competitive in football in the SoCon in the CAA at the beginning. They play a high level of football (with a few exceptions) Wofford or furman would beat any FCS startup by 50 points. That is not a knock on Charlotte. I believe they will be successful, the time table they set forth is just unrealistic. The only program I can think of that has successfully moved as fast as they would like is South Florida. SF had 45,000 students and Florida to recruit from.
You need to find a home, even if you have to swallow your pride and accept the CAA all sports. Then begin work, because you will struggle big time as a startup, but with time and work can accomplish your goal of going FBS.
Get a new basketball coach.
I do not think the SoCon would accept Charlotte in all sports unless App was definately leaving. And no, UNCC would not "dominate in all sports except football and basketball". SoCon baseball is much higher ranked than A10 and has at least two or more births most years. If App is still in the conference, then track & field would be out of the question. No matter how highly we think of our basketball team, ancient history will not get us into a conference, only recent history ... and its nothing to brag about. With Davidson in the SoCon, their recent history is much, much better than ours. Our "possible" sellouts of a 15,000 seat stadium isn't gonna impress a conference with App packing in over 30,000 into one of the most modern facilities in the country and GaSo pushing over 20,000. I have no idea why our University is so delusional to think that some FBS conference is gonna want us anytime soon. App has been leading the nation in attendance for about 5+ years and has the steady history of success to go along with it and the FBS is not beating path to their door. Just being in the city of Charlotte means nothing after watching the Furmans, Apps (if they would even play us), and SCSU's of the world kill us by 50 for a few years as an FCS indy.
LOL at Anon. 9:32. I've seen delusional, but that takes the cake. The Big South rejected you because you are too big and you bring too much money to the table? Listen to yourself.
"Call it the Atlantic-South Conference.
Miami wants out
Clemson might want in
FSU maybe
Tenn Chat
UNC Charlotte
Furman
Richmond
WVU
Memphis
Arkansas? maybe
Western Carolina
East Carolina
lot of possibilities
One MAJOR in UNCCharlotte favor is the centralized location and having an NFL Stadium for playoff games."
WOW WOW WOW, insane person much?
NCAA requires to go Div 1A you must sell 19,000 tickets per home game.
The new Atlantic South Conference sounds like a winner !!!!!!!!!
Everything begins with an idea!
It would be great if UNC-Charlotte put a new league together HQ in the QC. It would have to be Div 1A for football. Skip the crawl.
Atlantic South name not too shabby.
or Southeast Atlantic Conf
or Big Atlantic Conf
others looking for a new league thru the grapevine
U Central Florida
U Southern Florida
Coastal Carolina
Va Tech
Ga Tech
Think outside the box for a change.Way past time for the 49ers to stop crawling after 50 yrs.
UNCC Football will the new football punching bag for the next 20 years. They are going to drive up student fees to start football team...it will lose money leading to more student fees. UNCC is a commuter college, there will not be much support for this team. Charlotte is a NFL Town.
UCF has 50,000 students and only 35yrs old plus D1A and 90% commute in the Orlando area.
Same for USF in Tampa. Same for GA Tech in Atlanta.
Same for UCLA, USC, U of Houston. U of Miami. Such ignorance.
Anytime you have a large growing public university in a larger size city/metro area as opposed to some remote small town or college community or village you will have mostly commuters. People save money on room and board plus work part time.
What is wrong with that? It is what it is.
That's not an idea, it's a flight of fancy. You guys need to pull your head out of the clouds and start thinking realistically. You'd be lucky to have a winning season in the SoCon in 5 years.
Yea its time for UNCC to lose this bush league 2nd rate status and step up into the big leagues for a change.
Be leader not a follower.
If you build it they will come.
Still yet to comprehende how USF can play in NFL Tampa RayJay stadium with no problem but UNCC cant play in the NFL BOA stadium?
A new conference is a great idea. But be a realist; Central Florida has bigger fish to fry. And Virginia Tech, and Georgia Tech are not going to leave a BCS league and the lucrative deals the presently have with their conference affiliation to form a new league with no guarantees. Their programs would lose multi – millions of dollars if they did that and would be the death of what now have.
New Conference: James Madison, Charlotte, App St., Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, Georgia St, Liberty University (what do all these schools have in common; they have expressed the desire to be FBS). These schools move up in five years. They join with ECU, Marshall, Middle Tenn, to form a new 10 team conference and after proving themselves they extend an invitation to UAB & Southern Miss.
Name of conference: Atlantic South, Magnolia, Southern Oak, Southern Gridiron, Founders League of Associated Sports Home (FLASH). Or any other name. Headquarters: Charlotte, Greenville SC, Myrtle Beach, Ashville, Wilmington, Charleston, or ect.
The conference would provide natural rivalries, geographical senses, cover 8 states, largest TV markets in Carolinas, Georgia & Alabama.
Delusions of grandeur.
Charlotte, at the moment, is not better than the Big South, and especially the SoCon. Rose seems to think they are.
Charlotte's ace in the hole is the Charlotte media market...which both conferences already have access to (Stony Brook was accepted as a partial member of the Big South for media market access) through Davidson and Winthrop. Trying to tease them with a football team that hasn't even held a practice yet wasn't going to work.
The sad part is that I'm certain they'd have accepted the full program and the big winners in that would've been Charlotte fans. Imagine an away trip to Coastal in September, you could catch the game and spend a weekend at MB. You could drive to games at Greensboro, Davidson, Winthrop or Webb during the week and return at a reasonable hour. All of this stuff benefits the fans, but Rose didn't look at that, she failed you guys big time on this one.
I think we can determine the level of aptitude of App State fans by these comments.
Some of your comments are laughable
2:39 if you think Charlotte is not above the BS and the SC as an overall sports program you're out of your mind. You cant be serious. Charlotte has D1 Final Fours in 3 different sports (BBall, Soccer and Golf). Neither of those leagues has one in any sport between them. FCS fball is not even close.
5:36, I like your spirit but your "facts" are wrong. Charlotte has ~the same % of commuter students right now as UNCCH, NCSU, ASU, ECU and others (with a few % points). The image of Charlotte being a commuter school is atleast 20 years out of date.
Annon 10:46 on NFL Stadium:
Simple answer is Raymond James Stadium is owned by the city of Tampa and USF pays a rental fee that is structured to affordability. Anyone can use it at the same rent level. But, the difference is, USF does not have to pay what amounts to a million-plus dollars for each home season. We would.
The Panthers BOA Stadium is owned by Jerry Richardson and he would be a fool to provide the same deal USF receives because (1) he doesn't have to do so, and (2) he has to answer to his ownership group about profitability, and finally (3) he is responsible for updates and improvements to the stadium and that is a lot of money.
I know in the past the 49ers asked and the rent alone begins at $250,000 per game. If there are 6 home games and you have to pay security, parking attendants (private lots), and you get zero concessions' fees, what does that cost you each year? $1.5 million, easy.
Playing on campus will be awesome.
When we support the team as we should, we can expect the stadium to expand.
I had to laugh at the person who is dreaming that UNCC will get in the Big East! That will happen just after John Edwards is elected President
I'm scratching my head at the Big South rejection. I am a graduate of Winthrop and I think UNCC in the Big South would have brought alot of needed media attention to the conference. Seems to me it would be win-win for both.
I am glad Winthrop hasn't caved to pressure to start a football program. Winthrop knows who they are and doesn't need a 2nd tier football team to feel good about themselves. I have donated money for building funds but wouldnt give a dime to the school to start a football program.
Jerry Richardson does not own BOA stadium. He owns the NFL franschise that plays in the stadium. BOA stadium is owned by Carolinas Stadium Corporation jointly with 65,000 PSL holders.
250,000 per game rent per game is bogus. An entire season maybe.
A UNCC contract would allow the 6 home games to no more than 50,000 per game or less.
It would be much cheaper to rent BOA than build a small new stadium on the campus right now.
Renting BOA stadium would be immediate high profile status and media coverage. The uptown location would be a million times better.
No brainer !!!
I can see doin:g a game a season uptown to bring the community more into it. It could work much the same as when Charlotte beat Tennessee at TWC. Having an on-campus stadium will improve the student life and encourage students to stay on campus over the weekends. As 9:32 said if people fill the stadium we have and we keep having to rent bleachers, then stadium expansion won't be far off.
4:29, sorry you'r wrong on all counts.......way off in fact. TRust me.
9:52....I wouldn't laugh too hard and you dont have to take my word for it. You can take the USF Athletic Directors........
4:29 -- U R 100% on the money and know the facts. BOA stadium is def the place for a new UNCC team to play for any number of reasons. No negatives. All positives. Its win-win.
Dont waste 50 million on some small UNCC football stadium on campus where nobody would attend. Terrible idea especially for a start up.
Wait until you get a big following if that happened and then maybe go to the campus. By then some billionaire corp like Halton at Pepsi will build it and write it off their taxes.
This is not even close.
Open up to non-UNCC people who may like Div One college football played in an NFL 75,000 seat stadium with the skyscraper backdrop on I-77 for easy access with all the amenities uptown and media next door.
Be inclusive. Tucking a small stadium in an remote unknown location is complete suicide right off the bat. Use the resources available to build a team and a name before you waste money a fortune on a stadium in a bad location.
University City once a high growth elite suburban business growth safe area has become one of the worse crime spots in the city and getting worse. Businesses have left in droves and the once highly touted Research park is but a skeleton of what it once was or could have been. Anchor tenant IBM long gone. Demographics have changed dramatically.
This damages university lifestyle in general and one cause of low attendance in sporting events although being in a non-regional distance conference also prevents rivaries or opposing fans filling the seats. The commuter excuse is bogus.
This is why it is essential to put a new UNC Charlotte football program out front dead center in the limelite of BOA stadium for its home games. PSLers and all others would be privy to attend boosting numbers and revenue. The only advantage of a stadium on campus would be for the few who live there.
University officials had better reexamine this stadium situation that could save tens of millions and give high profile status to a new program playing in an NFL stadium.
Put a new stadium on the back burner for now. The new coach should know since Wake Forest is smack in the center of downtown Winston Salem and this helps them greatly.
UNCC better take a closer look at the MEAC, join them and build their football program. UNCC can always leave after a few years. It is much more difficult to build a football program as an independent.
UNCC plays here in 2013
Colonial Athletic Association Standings - 2010:
FINAL CONF STANDINGS
William & Mary 6-2
Delaware 6-2
Villanova 5-3
New Hampshire 5-3
Richmond 4-4
Massachusetts 4-4
Rhode Island 4-4
James Madison 3-5
Maine 3-5
Towson 0-8
The MEAC would certainly be a better fit than the Big South. At least you have some schools who lead FCS in attendance every season and bring fans (and their money) to visiting stadiums. Plus, they already have an automatic bid into the FCS playoffs. Do a six-to-ten year football-only agreement with the MEAC, win a few titles, have some success in the FCS playoffs...and move on.
OMG!!! Someone just hit on an important, frightening point: UNCC will now have to come up with a marching band!
7:23 and 9:57......pleez stop stop posting on a topic you know nothing about.....pleez, you are 110% clueless.
3:31 PM
The only misguided uninformed clueless one is in your mirror !!
Try to get your GPA up from a 1.3 to a 2.0 or the registrar and dean will be kicking you out again this time for good. It should never take 7-8 years just to complete 120 hrs.
9:57 wake forest isn't in downtown you dumb@$$
Wake is not downtown? When did they move it? Its not on the square but not far from it from it and that area of Reynolda is called the DOWNTOWN area.
IDIOT.
http://www.wfu.edu/visitors/maps/_assets/_documents/visit.map.areamap.pdf
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