There are many positives to take out of Appalachian State’s college football upset of fifth-ranked Michigan on Saturday.
Here’s another: The game should serve as both a rallying cry and reminder that there is no excuse UNC Charlotte shouldn’t add football as soon as possible.
Imagine – dream if you will – opening up Sunday’s Observer and reading all the stories written about ASU’s upset and replacing the word "ASU" with "UNC Charlotte" or "Mountaineers" with "49ers." Think about everything this win does for Appalachian State – the school and the athletics department.
Think it couldn’t do the same to Charlotte? Think again.
There has been one glaring omission from the debate about whether Charlotte should add football and that is trying to quantify the intangibles of such a move. There are many well-paid and highly touted economists and financial experts who will offer their opinions as to whether the 49ers fan base and the Charlotte region can sustain a NCAA Division I football team.
What those very well-meaning people cannot measure is the loyalty, the excitement, the school spirit such Saturday afternoon football weekends bring. Ask fans of North Carolina, Clemson and South Carolina what it’s like at their respective football games each fall weekend, and you will get descriptions that go far beyond a sum of plays and description of good 40-yard-line seats.
It’s an atmosphere – one that cannot be easily replicated in a 100-page study. In such cases, the best evidence to discern the effect is to look at the visual evidence that surrounds you.
Davidson plays football, but likely will never get a chance to win a national championship because of the level the Wildcats choose to play. Ask students and alumni if it should be disbanded.
Ask Clemson fans if they would trade Saturdays at Death Valley for an ACC basketball championship. I think I know the answer. Do you?
Skeptics said Appalachian State would never – could never – beat Michigan in the "Big House."
We know the Mountaineers did.
Skeptics say Charlotte 49ers fans won’t support football. They say it can’t be done. They say nobody cares.
Give them reason to be wrong again.
Show them constant vigilance.
Monday, September 3, 2007
ASU upset a lesson to football skeptics
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Simply put - that was GREAT!!
Jim, this is the best blog entry you've ever written! It should be emailed to each member of the football study committee and every Board of Trustees member.
One problem guys, try waiting about 30 some odd years to build a powerhouse like we have here at App. This was not some miracle because our school decided to establish football team long long ago. This is the byproduct of unrelenting work and was well deserved...if and when UNCC decides to field a team do not expect moments like this to come for quite some time. I do agree football can be uniting force though and UNCC desperately needs something to bring together a school that vanishes come Fridays.
Jim, who is North Carolina?
I've heard of North Carolina at Charlotte, and North Carolina at Chapel Hill and North Carolina at Asheville, but never just North Carolina. Is that a real school or are you just refering to the name of the University system as a whole?
Where is Wisconsin? Where is Illinois? Where is Arkansas? Get over it.
Texas, Florida, Florida State, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, Ohio State, West Virginia, Virginia, Georgia, South Carolina, Missouri, Arizona, Arizona State. The list goes on. Charlotte's not the main campus, especially without football.
Charlotte is not the main campus? Of what? Who says UNC-CH is the main campus?
Well I think Chapel Hill is the understood main campus...the correct term for all the other UNC institutions is satellite campuses...ASU, ECU, NCSU,WCU...they are all UNC school they just don't bear the title UNC in their names like UNCA, UNCW,UNCC. Chapel Hill was the first public university in the nation's history...UNC is understood as THE university, not a system. So don't flatter yourself, you go to UNCC and that doesn't even begin to compare to UNC Chapel HIll.
Nice article Jim. App put the ball on a tee for you and you knocked out of the park.
Phil and Co. need to make some public statement this week. I am not saying the final verdict, but the boat needs to be rocked for Niner football soon.
michwho, you obviously don't understand the system, so its not worth debating with you, another time another place.
The fact that you think those schools are satellite campuses just takes what little credibility you had in your arguments and boots them to the curb. You dont even know what unc Charlotte is.
michiganwho, stop showing your ignorance. From the web, http://www.northcarolina.edu. "Today, UNC is a multi-campus university composed of all 16 of North Carolina's public institutions that grant baccalaureate degrees...."
If you'll look at their website as well as the websites of the 16 schools, you will find NOTHING that indicates satellite campuses. Each institution stands on its own.
FYI, since President Erskine Bowles and the UNC Board of Governors have approved future growth to 35,000 students on the Mecklenburg campus by 2020, perhaps you'll feel differently as UNC Charlotte becomes the largest university in the UNC system.
Who cares what UNCC is or is not. It's not in the same league as Chapel Hill or App or State academically and definitely not athletically. You will be lucky if you even get invited by the Big South if a team ever gets started. As an App student I personally hope the SoCon doesn't even touch UNCC and offer an invite to our conference. UNCC is long away from being a 1A school and it has nothing to do with how big your enrollment is. You will NOT be competitive for quite some time at any level. I do think football is a great addition to any school, but it seems to be so few students and alumni are realists in how they see this playing out. The Big East won't come calling your name if you add football so don't get ahead of yourselves.
As someone who makes hiring decisions for a Charlotte based business, I'll take a UNCC graduate over an App State graduate 9 times out of 10. They are well-prepared to work for my company.
I go to Charlotte, App was my safety school.
App. St. better academically? I wouldn't go that far. Athletically? Enjoy your football season b/c other then that winter isn't the only thing that goes cold up in Boone.
App St was the spring board we needed for the push to get football at Charlotte.
Other things that happened this weekend that should push us to get football are : UNC Pembroke played their first game in 50 years or so; App St, ECU, and WCU had their teams extensively shown on ESPN College Gameday; and a player from Coastal Carolina (who started their program 2 years ago) made the Panthers 53 man roster.
There is no reason that Charlotte should not have a football team. We came up with a cost, the students voted in favor of increasing fees that will cover that cost, so make it happen.
Nice article.
While I'm not going to get into the ASU vs. UNCC (that's the way it was when I grew up and how it always should be)academic comparison, if in making hiring decisions, you are hiring based on the college a prospective employ attended (unless it is a field such as architecture, where UNCC has a program and ASU does not), you are missing the boat on how to hire employees (see individual merit).
Here's the facts:
UNCC needs football. Even after you take away the publicity of national championships and in beating Michigan, the school needs the benefits of having alumni and active students on campus on the weekends for a big event. You need it to give your quality basketball program a chance to remain competitive.
It will take 10-15 years minimum for Charlotte to build a competitive program and would be ridiculous not to consider spending at least 8-10 years at the Division I-AA (FCS) level.
Even Coach Moore at ASU was not immediately successful and our offense did not involve in its current form until Scott Satterfield took the offensive coordinator reigns.
It was also the first time ever that a Div. I-AA team defeated a ranked team, so I wouldn't start replacing Mountaineers with 49ers.
Wow, I really like to pull for Ap in football (until Charlotte takes the field anyway)but some of you "Ap people" seem to be going overboard. Ap certainly has an advantage on UNC Charlotte in football, but that IS ALL. It does not compare academically or athletically in any other sport. They were my "back-up" school as well. Get a grip Apps!
Well first of all ASU was one of four the Time Colleges of the Year in the entire country! Name the last time UNCC got some recognition of that magnitude. Also, The only schools to turn away more students this academic year was Chapel Hill and NCSU. In reality, the people who had App as a backup are not alone because about 10,000 students here can claim UNCC as a safety school...that's not a bragging right to prove your school's supremacy...bring some real facts people. Also, whoever made the comment about no sports in the winter obviously didn't keep track of basketball outside of Charlotte because ASU had a better basketball program and deserved to be in the NCAA tournament winning 25 games including wins against Vanderbilt, VCU, giving Davidson its only loss in conference...at HOME!, beating a perrenial mid-major power on ESPN at Wichita State, we also made the NIT which is far more than you can claim for UNCC. I am certain we will win at least 18 games this year and we will see what happens when we come to play Charlotte. We also have won the Commissioner's Cup for each of the last 26 out of 29 years which is awarded to the best men's athletic program overall in the conference.
You had one good season in basketball and you run your mouth. The commissioner's cup competition in that conference is weak and many of those schools do not field an entire athletic program, thus making it more difficult for them to win it.
Congrats on your win, you should be confident and proud, but arrogant you shouldn't be. That's what did Michigan in.
As the last poster mentioned, you ASU people need to come back down to earth. IF you really think ASU is stronger academically than UNC Charlotte, you are clueless. I have a close relative who is in his 5th year at ASU right now and he openly admits that ASU can not touch Charlotte academically. Do you guys even offer doctoral degrees? Charlotte has what, 20-30 offered...... As for other sports, you can't seriously think that one or even two decent years in basketball makes your program better than Charlotte's. That is just laughable. Sure, Charlotte was down last year (and might still be this year), but we'd have to be down for another 8-10 years, while ASU would have to get NCAA at-large bids that long to match Charlotte's record. How 'bout other sports? Charlotte baseball finished top 25 this year, knocked NCSU out the tourney 2 games to 0, before falling to S. Carolina on their home field. How 'bout golf? All Charlotte did was finish 3rd in the nation behind Stanford and Georgia. Where was ASU? I could continue on with soccer, track and field, etc. I'm not trying to rip ASU (and obviously you have great football over us), but you need to not go quite so overboard, you're going to make people like me turn against your team (whom I really like and have for years)!
Congrats to ASU on the win against Michigan. Hopefully this will inspire Charlotte's administration to field a football team for the 49er's that much faster. As for Chapel hill having an advantage over UNCC, they should. They've got a 200 year head start on us and they get more than their fair share of state funding. I think the folks in Chapel Hill are starting to hear footsteps when they see all the new academic programs and state of the art facilities that Charlotte has added to the campus, along with a growing student body. For those of you who think we're crazy, how about you stop by UNCC next time your in town. You'll be in for a pleasant surprise.
Everyone in North Carolina should be excited for ASU and the attention their upset victory has brought to our state. It was special.
UNCC needs football--for many reasons--not the least of which is institutitonal identity. Being located in Charlotte means the destiny of UNCC is to be a major research university (with major enrollment and business expectations) , but from an athletic/reputation standpoint, few
know much about the place, except if basketball gets into the NCAA"S
In February, the other shoe will drop and the football question will be positively answered with the addition of the sport. Charlotte is a metropolis and deserves major collegiate sports. For Boone, a mountain town, football brings recognition to a place few people know about or will
ever know.
The academic comparison between Charlotte and App is worthless. Lots of people use App as their "back-up" school, but many more use Charlotte as their "back-up" school. Just look at the numbeers. Charlotte does currently offer more doctorate programs, but that has to do with Charlottes location, and all about to change with Apps awesome leadership. As a current student, I always wanted to go to Appalachian, and used State and UNCC as my "backup" schools although I would never go to Charlotte because I grew up there and of course, no football. You guys had a some great basketball success 30 years ago, and have a great womens polo team or something, but go to any high school in North Carolina (even in Charlotte) and ask the top seniors whether they would want to go to App or Charlotte, and we all know what the answer is (And I have a brother who is a senior at one of the best schools in Charlotte).
Get football, start looking at quality over quantity, get your nose out of chapel hills a**, and stop touting your womens polo tournament appearance as it somehow negates the fact that ASU is more popular than UNCC, and maybe we can have a nice rivalry someday.
don't join the discussion if you can't contribute.
I like how this started out as praising App. for their play and for possibly giving an even further push of momentum to Charlotte's quest for football, and now has deteriorated into an argument about better universities.
Michiganwho instigated it and I hope him and some of the others on here do not reflect all App. students. You should be congratulated but it should take more than that win to make you turn your nose up to a school with dreams to accomplish similar feats.
Charlotte congratulates you... that's all, don't be a prick. You should enjoy your victory, and it should be inspiration to others but don't act like you're the next USC or LSU. Have some self restrain.
Good luck with making it 3 straight.
2:19 anonymous poster....that post is hilarious....when I stop laughing, I'll try to post a response!....hahahahaha
app and UNCC both have admission rates of about 70%. I think Apps is 69% and UNCC's is 73%. Not a significant enough difference to even argue about. Charlotte is considered a 4th tier doctoral university while App is (I think) a masters level university that isn't ranked. Neither App nor Charlotte can claim to be superior academically in my opinion because both admit the vast majority of those that apply. Charlotte definitely holds an advantage over App though in that it is located in the city and has a lot of ties to local businesses. Internships are plentiful for Charlotte students should they pursue them. App can't touch Charlotte there and experience is what matters the most to employers. A college town of 15,000 has very limited choices for students compared to a metropolis of 2 million people.
Congrats to ASU and their fans. Watching the excitement and spirit you had over the last weekend has made me wish more than ever that we had football here at Charlotte as you do.
But let me state this - over the last 3 years of experience I have with friends at other schools, I have really only had problems with UNC Chapel Hill students and a few NCSU students who talk a much bigger game than they are informed about regarding Charlotte, and have nothing but arrogance regarding their school and how much "better" it is than Charlotte. Please dont cause me to look differently at App. regarding these situations. I believe that each of the North Carolina University Systems schools have their own identities academically, and that we all excel in areas that the other schools may not. Thats the beauty of growing up in NC - I actually had a good choice of where I wanted to go for my education without worrying about out of state tuition.
Now to the guy who thinks we'r a satellite campus of UNCCH - Rutgers University in NJ has satellite campus' in NJ - but each of those campus' fly under the RU banner, with the RU colors, and their degrees say RU on them. Ours dont say UNCCH, we have our own colors and our own banner, which many of the people who comment on this are very proud of. So do not insult us by saying that we are simply a satellite campus of UNCCH. I'm glad you have spirit in your school, and I hope no one ever takes that from you, but throw out false information that could hinder ours. Thats a lack of respect for our University, and causes a much deeper lack of respect for you and your University to those of us who go to Charlotte.
Also NCAA basketball success 30 years ago? try being ranked 3 years ago.
And for the guy made the comment about employment - I've heard many of the employers here in Charlotte love hiring Charlotte grads over many of the other schools. I've also had employers tell me that.
I hope to oneday look out on a football field and see the Charlotte 49ers playing App. State - I think it would be an incredibly fun rivalry - similar to the cross town rivalry we have with Davidson in basketball. Best of luck to you and your season this year.
I don't care about seeing Charlotte or 49ers in headlines beating Michigan. I'd be fine with App throttles 49ers in football opener.
F**k App, let me know who wins the big Western Carolina game and the glorious brown jug or some crap....
Ryan, Appalachian is the 10th ranked University in the south division according to the Princeton Review.
Also, Consumer's Digest has ASU as its 21st "best value" in the nation.
Just a few little facts here for ya, in case you were wondering who really has the superior academics...
UNC Charlotte is the #1 rated University in the country in patents applied for.
UNC Charlotte is the #2 rated University in the country in patents granted.
UNC Charlotte is the #1 rated University in the country for number of startup businesses formed.
You can check the facts at the wikipedia article. If there aren't citations there, you can just go the Charlotte Douglas International Airport, where we have a huge mural.
Does Boone even have an airport? For crop dusters maybe.
It's not even a comparison in academics.
Additionally, let me say that App was never even on my radar. I applied to Charlotte, State, and Chapel Hill. I got into all three, and ultimately decided on Charlotte for its engineering program, specifically motor sports. While my path changed even before I started school, it was the clear choice. Don't comfort yourselves by knowing that almost every teacher I had in my K-12 years was an App grad; big whoop.
All that aside, I think App has quality athletics, especially for football - I was pulling for them against MSU and usually do when they play - but your arrogance is astonishing. Boone is a nice place to go skiing, and I have known many a people to go there over the years, but this attitude is so childish, and quite frankly, it's misplaced arrogance at best.
Anyone who's from Charlotte knows UNCC kids are the weak kids who weren't able to leave home. It's also a suitcase campus and has a lot of transients that just don't know where to end up. I didn't go to either, I went a private university. But I know I'd much rather befriend an App grad than a UNCC kid that's all tatted up and a member of a quasi-greek community. Oh yea, and App kids have much better parties.
I've attended both ASU and UNCC (The latter as a grad student). I enjoyed both, but would choose my experience at ASU any day over my experience at UNCC. UNCC has more of a community college feel to it. I taught some basic science labs while there as part of grad school and was amazed that several students couldn't do simple math, even with a calculator. I wonder what type of admission requirements they have.
This pissing match is pointless. Let us just agree that both Charlotte and ASU are both good academic schools, we aren't exactly Harvard, but we aren't ECU either. We both have facts about our schools that make them look superior (ASU has the #1 passing rate for the CPA exam in the country), but neither is going to be "better" per se. If you want to be an engineer (charlottegrad06) of course App isn't going to be on your radar (duh), we don't have an engineering school!! Get over yourselves, from both schools, and realize that this is a great accomplishment for ASU athletics, not academics, I doubt any other team from NC could win at the big house this year.
just throwing this out there - 75 percent of Charlotte students live on or within 5 miles of campus. i would say that approximately 16,680 kids didnt live within 5 miles of the University growing up, or even right before college started. So dont give me that "living at home because we dont have the power to leave" crap. Have you ever been to Charlotte? Theres so much to do - the weather doesnt suck half the year - and oh guess what, WE HAVE GOOD PROGRAMS - and most of them are actually on the higher end of the North Carolina Education System
There are a couple of reasons campus isnt incredibly active at all times during the weekend.
1. No Football on the weekends early on in the school year
2. We have a whopping 4 high rises, and like it or not, when you live in a highrise, there seems like theres a lot more going on, since you actually KNOW your neighbors.
3. Theres a LOT of crap going on around town
Dont assume that everyone just packs up and goes home on the weekends anymore. Though some do - many more dont. So dont go with the mid 80's early 90's approach as a suitcase school, you were misinformed
I'm actually from Charlotte, born and raised. I didn't go to school here, but I definitely agree with the comment about many students not being able to leave home and not knowing what else to do with themselves, so they end up enrolling at uncc. I hope it does get better and isn't so much of a suitcase campus. But for now, it's not high on anyone's radar as having a real community feel.
You last few posters are so obviously uninformed. Charlotte is WAY different than it was in the 80s or before. I know because unlike most of you, I was there. Iam also quite involved with the school as an alum, so I see it now as well. It is not a "suitcase school" these days. That is just and old cliche' that people in and around Charlotte have heard from years ago, so they just assume it still fits and the idea that people just "choose to enroll" at Charlotte when they don't have anywhere else to go is ridiculous. Check the numbers, SAT/ACT and others. You will find that Charlotte more than holds its own as compared to most UNC System schools, including that GREAT academic (Masters Level only) institution that is Ap State!...lol
For the idiot who said that we are weak kids and couldn't leave home, I laughed a little when you said you went to a "Private University."
Ummmm maybe Davidson? Don't make me start getting an S-T-D chant going.
Also, I'm sure that you can bring the entire student body of your "Private School" over and we'd see who the "weak kids" are.
As for App, don't claim to be an academic sound university when you're not. You may can run that crap by WCU fans and they're dumb enough to believe it, but not here.
May can? Its a good thing UNCC is known for a decent engineering program.
haha, no it wasn't Davidson actually. but even if it was, I'm sure you'll be working for some Davidson grads one day. If you're lucky maybe they'll learn your first name, too. I don't know uncc, one can dream right?
yeah man, davidsons got a KILLER engineering program. at least for one that doesnt exist.
Gosh I love that cross town rivalry thing...
I think the academic comparison is not really valid, for reasons already pointed out. Charlotte has doctorate programs. ASU does not. (Well i think they do in education) They are different. I'm not sure where the admission rate stat came from but this past year App had over 13,000 applicants that led to a freshman class of less than 3,000. That made ASU the 3rd most applied to school in the UNC system. So I would say that App is and will be more selective in admissions. However, a reason for that is that Charlotte has plenty of room to grow and expand to accomodate more students. Expansion room in Boone is at an astronomical premium.
But over the past few years, and what looks like in the future, ASU could be and maybe already is the most desired destination for Undergraduate work outside of UNC-CH and State.
I agree with the above statements for the most part - but I as many Charlotte students and Alumni believe, if the football statement is possitive in early 08' we will then be well on our way to having one of the major things that causes a decline (if one exists) in Charlottes admission standings. As sad as it sounds, a large reason for many students not coming to Charlotte, at least from my experience with Sr's in High School, is football, because it brings a LOT of communal feel with it.
We'll see what happens - I'm proud to be a North Carolinian with our academic institutions, and I'm proud to be a Charlotte 49er.
APP is hellah weak, go smoke so more pot and feel sorry for yourselves
Man I go to UNC Charlotte and Charlotte desperately needs a football team. The campus does die each weekend and it's extremely boring. It's already not a college town at all... it's a city, it needs something to at least make it feel like a college, and that's Saturday's in the fall. Tailgating, hanging with all your buds, and just having fun. I've spent plenty of money going to college football games and they're all at Georgia. I'm a Georgia fan for life, don't get me wrong, but if Charlotte would put a football team here, I'd have no problem going to every game as a student and then putting up for season-tix as an alumni. It's something the school needs.
For the "7:59" anonymous poster above, it looks like you are wrong on your applications data. The latest article posted on this webpage (about NC schools starting football) shows Charlotte had 15,000 applicants for this fall (compared to ASU's 13000, according to the poster). Charlotte's freshman class is typically 4-5000. I assume it is similar this year, but I don't know the exact figure. However, even an ASU student knows that 15,000 applicants is more than 13,000!!!
wow, UNCC and ASU people in a peeing contest.
I am a masters graduate from UNCC in engineering, working for a research institution that occasionally makes the paper when its products are launched into space. A good friend of mine is a computer science major from ASU who works for a prominent company in the Triangle. Both schools can get you where you want to go if you work hard. Both schools have a ways to go to match the tradition (academic and otherwise) of State and Carolina. I graduated from State as an undergrad, so I've seen firsthand the differences and similarities.
With that being said, I would definitely consider flying back to Charlotte for the first football game, if our admins stop playign the numbers game--believe me, if they wanted a football team, we'd already have one.
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